Meg Stalter Keeps Pitching Paul W. Downs a Hacks Spinoff (and a Christmas Album)

Spoilers below.

Meg Stalter is overcome with sadness. It’s been a long day of interviews as she and Hacks co-star/producer/writer Paul W. Downs walk into the ELLE offices, but she knows that she and Downs won’t be doing them together for much longer: Their beloved, Emmy-winning comedy will come to an end this month.

“This is such an exciting day to do press together because I get to see you, and then I’m realizing that we won’t get to do press next year,” she tells Downs beside her, before adding, “Unless we film a show now to come out next year.”

Without missing a beat, Downs replies, “Or if we commit a crime. Then we’ll have a lot of press.”

This is what Stalter and Downs’s dynamic is like: snappy, clever, effortlessly eliciting belly laughs. Onscreen on Hacks, that’s dialed up to a 10 as they play a wacky duo of talent managers, Jimmy LuSaque Jr. and Kayla Schaefer, who are trying to make a name for themselves in the cutthroat entertainment industry.

While their storyline is usually the B plot to Deborah (Jean Smart) and Ava’s (Hannah Einbinder) journey, Jimmy and Kayla often steal the scene with their shenanigans, whether it’s getting talent to “boof” cocaine before a talk show appearance or turning in a potential client who admitted to manslaughter. They make a perfect pair, with Kayla’s unhinged one-liners (“You’re being outperformed by a dead corpse, mama!”) and shameless no-boundaries behavior balanced by Jimmy’s straight man just trying to make his clients happy. Their assistant Randi (Robby Hoffman)—who just moved from her Hasidic community in New York to L.A.—rounds out their unlikely trio.

In season 5, episode 8, Jimmy and Kayla reach a sobering turning point: Kayla’s father has cut her off financially, meaning she can no longer bankroll the agency she and Jimmy have started together, Schaefer & LuSaque. Her dad also threatens to buy their agency and fold them into Latitude, the company where both Jimmy and Kayla got their start (and which Jimmy and Kayla’s dads founded together). It’s a brutal turn for the fan favorites, and though Kayla doesn’t want to succumb to her father’s demands, Jimmy convinces her that agreeing to the acquisition is actually the best decision for their clients. To worsen the blow, Kayla’s dad even assigns Jimmy to the mailroom. It’s painful to watch.

But the episode is also deeply heartfelt. While assessing the future of their careers, Jimmy and Kayla reflect on their friendship, which has evolved far beyond a typical workplace dynamic. Kayla tearfully calls Jimmy her best friend and admits he was the reason why she wanted to work in show business in the first place. But in classic Hacks fashion, this all happens after their electric vehicle dies during a blackout and they are forced to push it across the desert.

Stalter, known for her viral online comedy, has risen through her work on Hacks, going on to star in Lena Dunham’s Netflix series Too Much and, soon, she’ll make her Broadway debut in Oh Mary! as Mary Todd Lincoln. She’s also a pop star in the making who just dropped her debut single, “Prettiest Girl in America,” earlier this month. (It seems like a full album is in the works.) Meanwhile, Downs, known for his previous work on Broad City, now has three Emmys under his belt for Hacks, which he created with his wife Lucia Aniello and Jen Statsky. (The show itself has won 12 trophies since premiering in 2021.)

Below, Downs and Stalter talk to ELLE about the latest Hacks episode, the possibility of a Jimmy and Kayla spinoff, and, of course, Stalter’s music career.

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Meg, did you send your new music to Paul for his thoughts?

Meg Stalter: Yeah. I feel like you were one of the first people I showed. My girlfriend had it and you had it.

Paul W. Downs: It’s so good.

MS: You said you were singing it in Paris.

PWD: We played it for Jean [Smart].

MS: What did she think?

PWD: Jean was like, “She’s good! Her voice is good.” I think Jean thought it was going to be just comedy. And she was like, “But wait, the songs are good.” And we were like, “I know.”

I want to ask you both about episode 8, which was fun and crazy as always—but also very tender. Why did that feel like a good place to bring Jimmy and Kayla’s relationship?

PWD: Jimmy and Kayla are not outcasts exactly, but they definitely…

MS: They’re not out-ins.

In-casts?

PWD: They’re not the in-crowd.

They march to the beat of their own drum and struck it on their own and then it didn’t work out, as hard as they tried. They are at their lowest point, but they’ve also never been closer. It’s actually the first time that Kayla says, “You’re my best friend,” which I feel like was so sweet. And Meg really enhanced that line and all of that scene.

It was one of our last nights [shooting]. I think we were both pretty raw. I could barely look at her without feeling emotional as she performed her side of the scene. It was really good.

MS: It’s so easy to get to the emotion of the scene, whether it’s ha-ha-ha or [crying noises] hoo-hoo-hoo because I feel so connected to Paul in real life and to the characters. I’ve never experienced playing a character for this many years, to be able to know every part of them and their relationship. But also having Paul as a friend is one of the greatest joys. So it’s easy to tear up in a scene with you, thinking about our friendship and life. And also Paul and Hacks really changed my life. There would be no music career if I didn’t get to tell Kayla’s story.

PWD: Kayla walked so Meg could run.

MS: No, Kayla ran so that Meg could hobble behind her.

PWD: Kayla ran so that Meg could sing.

MS: Yeah, you’re right. Quote him on that.

Meg Stalter, Paul W. Downs, and Robby Hoffman on the set of Hacks.

What was your last day on set like?

MS: My last day was in Vegas, a crowd scene. I cried, freaked out, had a really hard time. Ran into somebody I used to nanny for on the street. He was like, “What are you guys doing? Are you filming Hacks?” It was really weird, scary, terrifying.

PWD: And there were like 300 extras. It was a big scene.

MS: I nannied so I could do comedy. So to see him on the last day of this life-changing job, it was really weird. Maybe you can interview him, too.

But I felt really sick. I started crying. I was saying things on camera that were really scaring everyone. I can’t even say them right now. It’s hard because to see Paul work with someone else is going to really make me sick. For me to work with someone else, doesn’t that make you nervous?

PWD: Yeah, if I saw her in a comedy duo, or in an odd-couple comedy dynamic, I would be so ripshit. I would be so jealous and sad.

MS: Me too. If you want to be doing a buddy comedy with Sydney Sweeney or something, I support you, but would it be hard? Yeah, it would. I would get so jealous.

PWD: Totally. But not if she’s leading a show, leading a movie, having a huge pop career. I am all for it. I am seated. I think it’s okay if you did a duet in song.

MS: What if we pause for a joke? We’re joking back and forth?

PWD: I wouldn’t love the banter. Stick to the music. I’ll be heckling in the crowd, “Stick to the music!”

MS: This is actually my worst nightmare: He’s on a red carpet. He’s getting interviewed. His new duo co-star bumps up and they start laughing. “Oh my gosh, you’re here! Yes!” You run into each other and you’re doing, like, “Oh my gosh, this girl over here.” That is horrifying to me.

PWD: I won’t do it. I won’t do it.

MS: You don’t know that. In 10 years, what if that’s you? I’ll be behind a paparazzi camera.

PWD: I’ll be like, “Meg, I thought you went into music. You went into photography?”

Who would be your dream duet? Singing only. No banter.

MS: I really want to do a Christmas album with you [Paul], you know that.

PWD: I know. We’ll think about it. I honestly think your audience wouldn’t like it, but I’ll do it. Just because my voice isn’t great.

MS: Honey, my audience is your audience. Where do you think my audience came from, man?

PWD: You have a cult following. She [Meg] is an industry unto herself.

Mark Indelicato, Hannah Einbinder, Paul W. Downs, and Meg Stalter on the set of Hacks.

What is your fan base called?

MS: What do you think they should be called? The Meganites?

PWD: The Stalterizers.

MS: Stalterizers?

PWD: You don’t want it to be the Stalter Stalkers.

MS: The Stalters. They’re my family. What about the Esmeraldas? That’s nothing to do with my name. What is yours?

PWD: Mine?

MS: The Downs. Lucia [Aniello] has the Lucifers. What if yours was the Paulifers?

PWD: The Paulifers. That’s good.

MS: The Meggies.

PWD: The Meggies is good. That sounds like an award show.

MS: I should do an award show for my fans.

When you look back at your time on Hacks, what was the craziest scene you filmed and was it making Julianne Nicholson pretend to do cocaine?

PWD: That was so crazy. Meg pulled it off so well. You had so much energy. It forces you to really use your voice and yell. Julianne got bloody. She threw herself into a bar cart. It was an intense scene. I just heard from her. She loves the season.

Downs, Julianne Nicholson, and Stalter in season 4 of Hacks.

MS: I’m scared to see the end. Do I have the last episode?

PWD: You do, but you know when you should see it? We’re doing an event at the Academy Museum on May 26. You should see it then. But it’s going to be really hard because there’s a panel after. Bring your makeup artist.

MS: Oh, I don’t know. I’ll be sobbing.

PWD: I’ve seen it 30 times, and still cannot stop pouring [tears].

MS: I’m so scared. I really don’t feel like I can ever watch it. I have to.

How does it feel reflecting on when you first pitched the show, now that you’ve reached the end of the experience?

PWD: It’s hard to even describe it. It feels like a literal dream because it was. It was a dream come true. But the experience of the show, and the amount of people that responded to the show, and the way the show was received, it’s almost hard to put in your head. It’s like a dream where I certainly remember parts of it and I had experienced big emotions around it, but it does feel dreamlike.

And right now we’re in a state of mourning. It is really hard even though I’m like, this was the right time; this is the right thing to do. The further we get from the experience and as it gets out into the world and then the further it will be from us having made it; it’s sad. We love the characters and we love the show.

MS: Does part of you think, “Let’s just get the cameras back up”?

PWD: Sometimes I do think that.

MS: Has a show done that? Ended and then made one more season?

Curb Your Enthusiasm kind of did that.

PWD:Curb did three or four times. The Comeback was over and then it came back. Will and Grace, I guess that was a reboot, but people do finales and they come back. But I don’t know. It would be a different show because we pitched it with an ending that we get to.

How close is this ending to what you originally had planned?

PWD: We didn’t pitch, for example, what happens with Jimmy and Kayla in the series finale, but we pitched the last episode in terms of what happens with Deborah and Ava. So it is what we pitched. Of course, it expanded and changed and evolved as we got to write for the actors and got to know the characters, but it’s pretty much what we talked about so many years ago. And because it’s plotted that way, we think now that they’ve gotten to the place that they get to in the end, you could do more, but it would just be a different show.

MS: I’m actually starting to have a panic attack, thinking about this.

I feel like Hollywood loves an underdog story, but in the end of this latest episode, Jimmy and Kayla have to bite the bullet and get acquired by Kayla’s dad’s company. I was wondering why you wanted to take the story there and show that side of the industry.

PWD: It’s true to the characters that both Jimmy and Kayla are these kind of nepo babies that come from two people that founded this management company, but it’s pretty full-circle to be back there. I think it’s very Hacks to [have them] back there as underdogs. They’re still under Kayla’s father’s thumb. Jimmy’s put in the mailroom.

He’s starting from the bottom, but that is such the story of Deborah Vance—that one step forward and two steps back, and she’s constantly having to reinvent herself and get back up. And so I think that’s a little bit what the show is about, being knocked down a hundred times and getting back up 101.

Behind the scenes of Hacks season 5, episode 8.

What was it like pushing the car?

PWD: Freezing, first of all. It was 20 degrees because it was February in the desert. So it was biting cold. But it was so satisfying because Meg was so emotional in it, and it was honestly so powerful to be in the scene with her and watch it. It’s really good. Hannah [Einbinder] saw it. Hannah was bawling.

She was bawling at that scene because it’s such a sweet scene. These are two people that were so far apart in the beginning, just like Deborah and Ava, and now it’s like, “You’re my best friend.” “I love you.” “I love you, too.” And they hug. You can see we’re not faking it in that scene. We were really moved.

MS: I felt very emotional in real life because it was our second-to-last day filming.

PWD: It was our last scene.

MS: So that scene was really hard because it was the last time that Kayla was going to be with Jimmy until we do the damn spinoff that I keep pitching every day. The damn amazing spinoff.

PWD: Everyone says that.

MS: So it’s like, this could be the last time that Kayla’s talking to Jimmy and I’m going to freak out. I’m going to start screaming and I’m going to go bet all my money in Vegas.

PWD: That is one thing that Robby [Hoffman] said that was very funny. Robby’s like, “It would be like Frasier. It’s going to be bigger and better.” Bigger and better than that?

I feel like Robby would have to be a part of the spinoff, too.

PWD: She would. But she could be killed off.

MS: But she won’t be in it because of what she said: “It could be bigger and better.” So she unfortunately can’t be in it. No, we love Robby.

Kayla (Stalter) and Jimmy (Downs) in season 5 of Hacks.

Has playing Jimmy and Kayla made you rethink or have a deeper appreciation for workplace relationships? There are work wives, and then there’s whatever this is.

MS: I actually have always had a work fantasy to be in an office, coming in like, “Hi, Joan!” I think it sounds so cool. This is probably because I have a horrible time with endings, so it’s like you get to keep seeing the people and you don’t have to end in five months. I guess I learned there are deeper friendships than you can even imagine.

PWD: I created a show with my best friend and my wife, and so it’s very autobiographical and is about the people you work and collaborate with. I think it’s such an important part of life, those people that you work with. Especially on the show for Deborah and Ava, it’s people who create together. And that’s true of the show.

Whether it’s Jen, Lucia, and me, or Meg and me, or people in the cast, all of us feel like it’s our baby. We care so much about the show that it’s part of the reason it’s so hard to let it go. It’s like dropping your kid off at college. They won’t ever come home in the same way.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.