Audio: Michigan fake elector outlines Jan. 6 plan to present Mike Pence with “dueling electors”

One of the fake Republican electors in Michigan explained in December 2020 that the plan to use fake electors to certify a win for Donald Trump in their state arose from conversations with “some very incredible constitutional attorneys” from the former president’s campaign.

Meshawn Maddock, one of 16 false electors in Michigan charged in July for the alleged plot, described the Trump campaign-headed plan in detail during a Dec. 16, 2020, radio interview, recalling that the decision on which electors to use would be left to a constitutional attorney, then-vice president Mike Pence and Congress, according to a CNN KFile review of the interview. The newly uncovered conversation exposes Maddock’s extensive knowledge of the Trump campaign’s role in the scheme to usurp Joe Biden’s electors and contradicts her previous comments claiming a “vague” recollection of the plot when questioned about CNN’s reporting on the campaign’s involvement last year. 

Maddock has previously said that the fake Republican electors were not intended to replace the legitimate pro-Biden electors, but her comments about Pence in the 2020 interview demonstrate her understanding that the fake slate could have overtaken the legitimate votes on Jan. 6, 2021. Despite the former president losing Michigan by over 150,000 votes, Maddock and the 15 others fake electors signed certificates falsely asserting their legitimacy in the state just days before the interview and attempted to enter the state capitol to deliver the votes.

“I’m no constitutional attorney,” Maddock said in the interview with local radio host Steve Gruber. “I’m an elector for Donald Trump from the Michigan Republican Party. I along with the other 15 electors were guided by legal minds – attorneys for our president, some very incredible constitutional attorneys – I’ve never in my whole life appreciated legal minds and attorneys before.”

Maddock did not name the Trump attorneys she referenced, CNN reports.

“I can tell you that in the last few weeks, just some incredible minds,” she added. “And from what I understand, you know, you have the federal constitutional law, and then you have state statutes, um, and they’re two different things. So, what we did, uh, along with seven other states, really send in dueling electors, and that will be there before, um, you know, a federal constitutional attorney, and it’ll be before, uh, Mike Pence and Congress to make that decision.”

Maddock, who is also the spouse of a conservative state legislator, went on to become the co-chair of Michigan’s Republican Party following the 2020 election and presided over the group’s 2022 losses during the midterms. She regurgitated some of Trump’s most contentious false voter fraud claims and eventually deleted a tweet spreading an unfounded conspiracy theory that Dominion Voting Systems had altered votes during the 2020 election.

She declined CNN’s request for comment. 

In the December 2020 interview, she also referenced the 1960 election in Hawaii where pro-Kennedy electors were sent to the National Archives alongside Republican electors, an example Trump campaign attorneys used to support their argument in memos detailing their fake electors plans.

However, the differences between Michigan’s 2020 election and Hawaii’s 1960 election are significant. Richard Nixon’s win in Hawaii was reversed after a recount — in which John F. Kennedy and Nixon were separated by less than 150 votes — thus handing its electoral votes to the Democrat. In Michigan, Biden had over 150,000 more votes than Trump and the results were never a question.

Despite showing in the interview that she understood the specifics of the fake electors plot, Maddock has more recently claimed that she doesn’t recall many of the details.

“A lot of that is still vague to me. And I don’t have any email communications with any of these people,” Maddock told Gruber in a separate July 2023 interview when asked which attorneys asked her to sign the fake election certificates.

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She then seemingly pushed responsibility onto the last state party chairperson, Laura Cox, saying that “somebody from her staff contacted all of us, asked us to be at the Michigan Republican Party office at 2 pm.”

In a deposition with the House select committee, which investigated the Jan. 6 Capitol attack, Cox said the Trump campaign asked her to “facilitate having the electors meet and sign some sort of document.” The request, she explained, made her uncomfortable.

“So, we came up with a document that we would have them have a ceremonial meeting, and one person would sign a document stating that if perhaps something were to happen in the courts, they were willing and able to serve as electors from Michigan for Donald Trump and Mike Pence,” Cox said.

Maddock and the 15 other fake electors were charged in July for their roles in the Trump campaign plan to overturn the 2020 election results in the state by enlisting the help of false electors. Each indicted individual was charged with eight state felonies: two counts of forgery, one count of conspiracy to commit forgery, one count of publishing a counterfeit record, one count of conspiring to publish a counterfeit record, two counts of election law forgery and one count of conspiracy to commit election law forgery. All 16 pleaded not guilty to the charges.